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 Should HRT adopts FPRs way of thinking?

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T O P I C    R E V I E W
DeeMaC Posted - 01 Apr 2012 : 10:56:19
FPR have two strong drivers up there duking it out for the championship.

HRT focus on one driver with some fans saying this is a good thing as driver two isn't up there fighting with driver one.


HRT used to be 'the ferrari of v8supercars' and now are merely a top 10 team with a podium being a strong result these days.

FPR are on the up ever since they 'retired' Richo to enduro duties.


So is two strong drivers like 888 and FPR the way to go these days or is focusing on one lead driver the best way to secure a championship? And should HRT switch over to the FPR way?
15   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
bigem Posted - 03 Apr 2012 : 18:27:36
quote:
Originally posted by karter

You'd wonder why HRT would have paid all thiose millions for Courtney, just to let him flounder around in the last 10. Can't see it myself.

I'm sure hRT would much prefer to have GT and JC fighting over race wins.



And lets all rejoice why they chase that flounder around the deck kart-man!!

Who knows when they might catch it!!
karter Posted - 03 Apr 2012 : 17:10:38
You'd wonder why HRT would have paid all thiose millions for Courtney, just to let him flounder around in the last 10. Can't see it myself.

I'm sure hRT would much prefer to have GT and JC fighting over race wins.
Contra Posted - 03 Apr 2012 : 16:23:32
quote:
Originally posted by ClubsportR8

quote:
Originally posted by STP01

quote:
Originally posted by Joss

quote:
Originally posted by Contra

All the knockers assume that HRT's world seems to revolve around Tander.


Then what's your explanation for it? Why do Garth Tander's team-mates do very well for themselves right up to the moment they join HRT? Why doesn't Tander experience any of their constant misfortunes? And why do they find themselves again once they have left? Like I said, we've seen it with Skaife, then with Davison, and now with Courtney. How do you explain that? Because if it was just one driver, I could write that off as bad luck. And if it were two, I'd happily accept it as coincidence. But three times? That's a pattern.


Skaife's form had little to do with Tander IMO. He went from the pressures of team owner , full time driver and battling Tom for ownership of the team to a part time driver in the best team in the field with a hell of a team mate. No surprise that he picked up some form.

Davo was fine in 2009, until the latter stages of the year. But they changed the cars in the off season, and they did seem to suit Tander more after that. The two new cars they brought out part way through 2010 were built the same way and hence Davo struggled. It doesn't mean Tander got preferential treatment (until Davo signed with FPR anyway), the car just suited him better. Since he'd been with the team far longer, it's understandable that he may have had a bigger input into the car.

I find it very hard to believe that HRT spent a fortune on Courtney, only to give him the 2nd rate parts or not give him as much support as they give Tander. He's got his engineer from DJR, so that shouldn't be an issue. Again the car doesn't suit Courtney and they seem to have a small set up window compared to say a Triple 8 car. Courtney then qualifies it poorly and hits everything in sight trying to drag it up the order.

HRT already have the drivers, they just need to sort out the cars. If they could tune them more to Courtney's liking, I have no doubt Tander would still be quick. After all, all 4 Walkinshaw VEs were rockets in 2007, and all 4 drivers had some successes.




I don't think it's just the HRT cars though. It seems every Walkinshaw chassis now is an unresponsive POS. Though Nick Percat seems to be doing good in the Dunlop series.

Just look at Bundaberg Racing in 2010 and how off the pace they were. Coulthard was able to get some decent results last year all things considered, but the car was hardly a rocket ship. Rusty wont do any better either.

LDM used a Walkinshaw chassis for 2 years and since they've moved to a 888 one it looks better. For me something changed in the Walkinshaw DNA in 2008.



Rusty is hardly a yardstick, let's face it WP only signed him because of his sponsorship $$$. But I do agree there must be fundamental flaws in WP's engineering, having said that PMM used to have a 888 chassis with 888 assistance and Rusty couldnt seem to fire with it either. Perhaps there is more "disclosure and cooperation" with 888 customer cars these days. As FanofV8 said SH has only been in the role since Jan 1 hardly an eternity by any standards, I'm sure he is not just focussing on COTF as their sponsors and fans still demand results(this year). Hopefully we will see an evolution of progress over the next few rounds. If by mid year they are no closer to the front...I would expect some heads to roll by end of year.
ClubsportR8 Posted - 03 Apr 2012 : 15:55:58
quote:
Originally posted by STP01

quote:
Originally posted by Joss

quote:
Originally posted by Contra

All the knockers assume that HRT's world seems to revolve around Tander.


Then what's your explanation for it? Why do Garth Tander's team-mates do very well for themselves right up to the moment they join HRT? Why doesn't Tander experience any of their constant misfortunes? And why do they find themselves again once they have left? Like I said, we've seen it with Skaife, then with Davison, and now with Courtney. How do you explain that? Because if it was just one driver, I could write that off as bad luck. And if it were two, I'd happily accept it as coincidence. But three times? That's a pattern.


Skaife's form had little to do with Tander IMO. He went from the pressures of team owner , full time driver and battling Tom for ownership of the team to a part time driver in the best team in the field with a hell of a team mate. No surprise that he picked up some form.

Davo was fine in 2009, until the latter stages of the year. But they changed the cars in the off season, and they did seem to suit Tander more after that. The two new cars they brought out part way through 2010 were built the same way and hence Davo struggled. It doesn't mean Tander got preferential treatment (until Davo signed with FPR anyway), the car just suited him better. Since he'd been with the team far longer, it's understandable that he may have had a bigger input into the car.

I find it very hard to believe that HRT spent a fortune on Courtney, only to give him the 2nd rate parts or not give him as much support as they give Tander. He's got his engineer from DJR, so that shouldn't be an issue. Again the car doesn't suit Courtney and they seem to have a small set up window compared to say a Triple 8 car. Courtney then qualifies it poorly and hits everything in sight trying to drag it up the order.

HRT already have the drivers, they just need to sort out the cars. If they could tune them more to Courtney's liking, I have no doubt Tander would still be quick. After all, all 4 Walkinshaw VEs were rockets in 2007, and all 4 drivers had some successes.




I don't think it's just the HRT cars though. It seems every Walkinshaw chassis now is an unresponsive POS. Though Nick Percat seems to be doing good in the Dunlop series.

Just look at Bundaberg Racing in 2010 and how off the pace they were. Coulthard was able to get some decent results last year all things considered, but the car was hardly a rocket ship. Rusty wont do any better either.

LDM used a Walkinshaw chassis for 2 years and since they've moved to a 888 one it looks better. For me something changed in the Walkinshaw DNA in 2008.
fanofV8 Posted - 03 Apr 2012 : 11:32:49
I don't think you can write off the new management team, in particular Steve Hallam. He has only been in charge a couple of months. He has probably been told do the best you can this year with what you have got and put all of the focus into next year when the cars change completely. Would make sense to me, I would be more worried if the team spent all year focusing on this year and forget to focus on the new COFT cars, as focusing on this year could lead to a few more lean years!!!
xr6man Posted - 03 Apr 2012 : 11:27:26
That Championships been on loan for a long time now!!! I think why would HRT bother with FPR's way of thinking... cause up until late it's been a very piss poor way of thinking to!!! And that's for a ford fans POV.

Project Blueprint totally changed our sport, and to me HRT lost something when that was introduced, I dont know what exactly that was be it an unfair one or not.
Contra Posted - 03 Apr 2012 : 10:53:11
quote:
Originally posted by Joss

quote:
Originally posted by Contra

All the knockers assume that HRT's world seems to revolve around Tander.


Then what's your explanation for it? Why do Garth Tander's team-mates do very well for themselves right up to the moment they join HRT? Why doesn't Tander experience any of their constant misfortunes? And why do they find themselves again once they have left? Like I said, we've seen it with Skaife, then with Davison, and now with Courtney. How do you explain that? Because if it was just one driver, I could write that off as bad luck. And if it were two, I'd happily accept it as coincidence. But three times? That's a pattern.



Could it be that Tander is just outstanding at extracting the best from an underperforming car?? Perhaps its that his team mate/s have not had that ability to extract what he can from the car. Lets not underestimate the caliber of driver he is. Perhaps you guys are doing him a disservice when blaming the team from making it more Tander-friendly when he is the only person that can "wring its neck" and deliver results from what seems a dog of a car.
HDT05 Posted - 03 Apr 2012 : 03:16:18
quote:
Originally posted by Wrighty05

No.

They should adpot whatever Hallam tells them to do. They won't work miracles overnight.


Agree...
STP01 Posted - 02 Apr 2012 : 23:41:52
quote:
Originally posted by Joss

quote:
Originally posted by Contra

All the knockers assume that HRT's world seems to revolve around Tander.


Then what's your explanation for it? Why do Garth Tander's team-mates do very well for themselves right up to the moment they join HRT? Why doesn't Tander experience any of their constant misfortunes? And why do they find themselves again once they have left? Like I said, we've seen it with Skaife, then with Davison, and now with Courtney. How do you explain that? Because if it was just one driver, I could write that off as bad luck. And if it were two, I'd happily accept it as coincidence. But three times? That's a pattern.


Skaife's form had little to do with Tander IMO. He went from the pressures of team owner , full time driver and battling Tom for ownership of the team to a part time driver in the best team in the field with a hell of a team mate. No surprise that he picked up some form.

Davo was fine in 2009, until the latter stages of the year. But they changed the cars in the off season, and they did seem to suit Tander more after that. The two new cars they brought out part way through 2010 were built the same way and hence Davo struggled. It doesn't mean Tander got preferential treatment (until Davo signed with FPR anyway), the car just suited him better. Since he'd been with the team far longer, it's understandable that he may have had a bigger input into the car.

I find it very hard to believe that HRT spent a fortune on Courtney, only to give him the 2nd rate parts or not give him as much support as they give Tander. He's got his engineer from DJR, so that shouldn't be an issue. Again the car doesn't suit Courtney and they seem to have a small set up window compared to say a Triple 8 car. Courtney then qualifies it poorly and hits everything in sight trying to drag it up the order.

HRT already have the drivers, they just need to sort out the cars. If they could tune them more to Courtney's liking, I have no doubt Tander would still be quick. After all, all 4 Walkinshaw VEs were rockets in 2007, and all 4 drivers had some successes.



Joss Posted - 02 Apr 2012 : 21:19:05
quote:
Originally posted by Contra

All the knockers assume that HRT's world seems to revolve around Tander.


Then what's your explanation for it? Why do Garth Tander's team-mates do very well for themselves right up to the moment they join HRT? Why doesn't Tander experience any of their constant misfortunes? And why do they find themselves again once they have left? Like I said, we've seen it with Skaife, then with Davison, and now with Courtney. How do you explain that? Because if it was just one driver, I could write that off as bad luck. And if it were two, I'd happily accept it as coincidence. But three times? That's a pattern.
Contra Posted - 02 Apr 2012 : 19:10:59
All the knockers assume that HRT's world seems to revolve around Tander. If infact it was JC and Gow who instigated the management reshuffle, why would they continue to engineer the car around Tander? It doesnt make any sense to me. Sure Tander is a strong personality but ultimately you cant revolve the team around one person. According to reports #22 drastically went a different direction with setup and finally achieved a top ten result. A small gain for the other side of the garage and just perhaps what JC needs (finally a reasonable result to massage his ego) GT's car doesnt seem to have any pace about it in comparison to FPR, the GIZ and 888 seemingly too fast for HRT. Where has the pace gone? WD and MW and to a lesser extent DR have got awesome pace in comparison to even 888. FPR genuinely seem a massive threat this year, slight issue in the pits not withstanding they are on fire, especially WD! Steve Hallam certainly has his workahead of him getting HRT back up the front!
Kieron302 Posted - 02 Apr 2012 : 18:22:32
quote:
Originally posted by emu

quote:
Originally posted by DeeMaC

FPR have two strong drivers up there duking it out for the championship.

HRT focus on one driver with some fans saying this is a good thing as driver two isn't up there fighting with driver one.


HRT used to be 'the ferrari of v8supercars' and now are merely a top 10 team with a podium being a strong result these days.

FPR are on the up ever since they 'retired' Richo to enduro duties.


So is two strong drivers like 888 and FPR the way to go these days or is focusing on one lead driver the best way to secure a championship? And should HRT switch over to the FPR way?


a top ten team
GT was in the hunt the last few years, will the year before, add a few bathurst wins & you cant say there just a top ten team.

they have 2 championship winning drivers, so why do HRT want FPR ways, maybe FPR should look at how HRT have done things.
they know how to win, they might not be as strong, but still have some decent runs on the board.



Since there last championship win, there have been many, many changes. Virtually the only thing that has remained the same is their telephone number so i'd suggest the current team don't know how to win.

I'd also suggest JC is on the receiving end of how he was treated at DJR. There, he was given preferential treatment given the meager budget, now it would appear the team surrounds Tander, odd given the $$'s they have and are paying for JC though.
ClubsportR8 Posted - 02 Apr 2012 : 17:56:04
quote:
Originally posted by HRTKLR

And before you Team Red fans get the red mist, just laugh and shrug it off



Oh I've shrugged it off. I mean I might aswell given how badly HRT are going atm.
HRTKLR Posted - 02 Apr 2012 : 17:54:54
And before you Team Red fans get the red mist, just laugh and shrug it off
ClubsportR8 Posted - 02 Apr 2012 : 17:43:08
quote:
Originally posted by HRTKLR

quote:
Originally posted by emu

quote:
Originally posted by DeeMaC

FPR have two strong drivers up there duking it out for the championship.

HRT focus on one driver with some fans saying this is a good thing as driver two isn't up there fighting with driver one.


HRT used to be 'the ferrari of v8supercars' and now are merely a top 10 team with a podium being a strong result these days.

FPR are on the up ever since they 'retired' Richo to enduro duties.


So is two strong drivers like 888 and FPR the way to go these days or is focusing on one lead driver the best way to secure a championship? And should HRT switch over to the FPR way?


a top ten team
GT was in the hunt the last few years, will the year before, add a few bathurst wins & you cant say there just a top ten team.

they have 2 championship winning drivers, so why do HRT want FPR ways, maybe FPR should look at how HRT have done things.
they know how to win, they might not be as strong, but still have some decent runs on the board.

So you're suggesting FPR should adopt traction control?



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