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 MN: BF Areo problem confirmed!
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AlbertM
Crackpot



12166 Posts
joined 15 Jan 03

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Posted - 06 Apr 2007 :  10:00:23  Show Profile  Visit AlbertM's Homepage Send AlbertM a Private Message Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by S Johnson

quote:
Originally posted by bigem

Its not a Ford ****up, its a TEGA issue,.



Who developed the Ford aero package? I'd say that's where the blame lies, not with TEGA.
Or would you rather blame Holden or Tom Walkinshaw, surely it couldn't be that the Ford teams just have to work a bit harder. DJR must be doing the hard work that other Ford teams aren't.



TEGA set the specification of the aero kit.

What has TW go to do with this?

DJR are doing well. But the issues is safety not performance.

Why are the Holden fan up in arms anyway? Are you affraid that if the problem is retified that Ford team will be closer to the front?

The only people mad at you for speaking the truth are those living a lie.

_Mford
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Incivitive
Pit Crew




Australia
187 Posts
joined 02 Aug 05

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Posted - 06 Apr 2007 :  10:02:26  Show Profile Send Incivitive a Private Message Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
If this is a parity formula why don't both cars run the same size ducts. Everything else is the same.
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Sonic
Moderator



Australia
14509 Posts
joined 14 Nov 06

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Posted - 06 Apr 2007 :  10:19:06  Show Profile Send Sonic a Private Message Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
does anyone know about the hosing between the ducts and the brakes? is there more efficiency in the way the Holden one delivers over the Ford? do both manufacturers come out at the same spot to cool the brake system? perhaps part of the problem for the teams that have suffered this has been where their 'cool' air is not going compared to other teams... i think the only accidents from Perth i wouldn't take into consideration would be James' as the first one was a failure like with Todd and the second seemed to me to be a reoccurrence due to the quick turnaround SBR had to perform...

but regardless... have those in power looked at this? what are they doing to make sure that the guys safety is being looked after and that these missiles are able to stop effectively at each corner... we don't need to get to Bathurst and have cars walling it everywhere...

c'mon... any news from upstairs that they are taking it seriously before going to NZ would be good news.

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karter
Team Manager


9696 Posts
joined 21 Sep 04

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Posted - 06 Apr 2007 :  10:45:36  Show Profile Send karter a Private Message Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Something the Holden fans don't seem to be able to grasp is that this is about SAFETY, not performance. It should be part of TEGA's brief to ensure the sport is run as safely as possible. If TEGA were half interested it would be easy. Look at the telemetery data, compare brake temps last year to this year, and red cars to blue. If there is any obvious problem with the BF's brake cooling package, then fix it. That would be if TEGA were even HALF interested in safety. But lately it seems all TEGA is interested in is money.
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pete55
Gone, but not forgotten



Australia
2806 Posts
joined 28 Jan 03

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Posted - 06 Apr 2007 :  10:59:26  Show Profile  Visit pete55's Homepage  Send pete55 an ICQ Message  Click to see pete55's MSN Messenger address Send pete55 a Private Message Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by karter

If TEGA were half interested it would be easy. Look at the telemetery data, compare brake temps last year to this year, and red cars to blue. If there is any obvious problem with the BF's brake cooling package, then fix it.



Might be a bit simple for TEGA to grasp though.
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bigem
A polar bear



Australia
14083 Posts
joined 22 Jun 04

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Posted - 06 Apr 2007 :  13:35:26  Show Profile Send bigem a Private Message Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Perhaps some posters should do some research on this stuff before they embarrass themselves with their ignorance!! Its all out there if you actually look!! This is not an "imagined" issue, its real and could not have been predicted prior to the season starting! The question of inlet and duct sizes is pretty straight forward, the duct loses its effectiveness if its larger than the inlet, so it is quite simple to understand that a small inlet/duct doesn't work as effeciently as a much larger setup! They need to change it now, before NZ otherwise somebody could get seriously hurt if they suffer brake failure!

Oh lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz.
My friends all drive Holdens, I must make amends.
Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends.
Stuff you lord, I bought my own, Mercedes Benz.
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Legendary Gerry
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Australia
17539 Posts
joined 19 Feb 07

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Posted - 06 Apr 2007 :  13:39:53  Show Profile Send Legendary Gerry a Private Message Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by bigem

Perhaps some posters should do some research on this stuff before they embarrass themselves with their ignorance!! Its all out there if you actually look!! This is not an "imagined" issue, its real and could not have been predicted prior to the season starting! The question of inlet and duct sizes is pretty straight forward, the duct loses its effectiveness if its larger than the inlet, so it is quite simple to understand that a small inlet/duct doesn't work as effeciently as a much larger setup! They need to change it now, before NZ otherwise somebody could get seriously hurt if they suffer brake failure!



Spot on M

And good to see that it's not all hot air.

_Mford

Edited by - Legendary Gerry on 06 Apr 2007 13:43:13
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MunroGTS
BANNED



4147 Posts
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Posted - 07 Apr 2007 :  05:17:03  Show Profile  Visit MunroGTS's Homepage Send MunroGTS a Private Message Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Why are the Holden fan up in arms anyway? Are you affraid that if the problem is retified that Ford team will be closer to the front?


The only Holdens that have it over all the Fords, are the TWPG Holdens. The rest of the field are pretty evenly matched.

What i love, is one round of domination by Holden and you lot are here screaming for rule changes. At the Clipsal 500, the Fords were on the pace (relatively well anyway) It was driver error and the inability of certain crew members, that ruined it for you all.

I think the thing some people are more afraid of is the TWPG quality of both cars and drivers combined, outclasses anything the Blue oval has to offer this year.

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REM
Team Manager



Australia
10983 Posts
joined 27 Sep 03

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Posted - 07 Apr 2007 :  09:23:55  Show Profile Send REM a Private Message Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Thanks for waxing lyrical Munro, I may be a bit obtuse...but what is your point in relation to the brake issues?


BIG call to write off the Fords for the rest of the year.....I would never have been that........ummm....... brave, in the past 4 years...to have written off the holdens

FPR 2013 Bathurst Champions! 2014 Frosty & Mostie!

You've just seen...."the heartstoppin', pants-droppin', hard rockin', booty shakin', earth quakin', love makin', viagra takin', history makin', legendary E STREET BAND!!!

"It just goes to show behind all the relentless negativity in opposition was .. well ... not much at all."

"There ain't no room for the hopeless sinner, who's been hard on mankind just to save his own" People Get Ready: C.Mayfield

ERM 31/3/2008.....Godspeed Big fella

www.Getup.org.au


Edited by - REM on 07 Apr 2007 09:29:52
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karter
Team Manager


9696 Posts
joined 21 Sep 04

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Posted - 07 Apr 2007 :  09:25:25  Show Profile Send karter a Private Message Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
So what's the objection to the BF's having brakes? FFS it's not a performance issue, it's about SAFETY. Try saying it Munro - S A F E T Y. While you might not give a stuff about the safety of Ford drivers, remember that it could be a Holden driver that gets injured as a result of a BF losing it's brakes - they are on the same racetracks at the same time you know.
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AlbertM
Crackpot



12166 Posts
joined 15 Jan 03

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Posted - 07 Apr 2007 :  09:34:00  Show Profile  Visit AlbertM's Homepage Send AlbertM a Private Message Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by MunroGTS

quote:
Why are the Holden fan up in arms anyway? Are you affraid that if the problem is retified that Ford team will be closer to the front?


The only Holdens that have it over all the Fords, are the TWPG Holdens. The rest of the field are pretty evenly matched.

What i love, is one round of domination by Holden and you lot are here screaming for rule changes. At the Clipsal 500, the Fords were on the pace (relatively well anyway) It was driver error and the inability of certain crew members, that ruined it for you all.

I think the thing some people are more afraid of is the TWPG quality of both cars and drivers combined, outclasses anything the Blue oval has to offer this year.





OK Munners leave everything as is and wait for someones brakes to cook and slam into the wall.

We bow to your intelligence.

The only people mad at you for speaking the truth are those living a lie.

_Mford
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REM
Team Manager



Australia
10983 Posts
joined 27 Sep 03

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Posted - 07 Apr 2007 :  09:37:54  Show Profile Send REM a Private Message Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Yeah...and which 'rules' are we supposedly wanting changed anyway?

Now back to the topic.....heh!

FPR 2013 Bathurst Champions! 2014 Frosty & Mostie!

You've just seen...."the heartstoppin', pants-droppin', hard rockin', booty shakin', earth quakin', love makin', viagra takin', history makin', legendary E STREET BAND!!!

"It just goes to show behind all the relentless negativity in opposition was .. well ... not much at all."

"There ain't no room for the hopeless sinner, who's been hard on mankind just to save his own" People Get Ready: C.Mayfield

ERM 31/3/2008.....Godspeed Big fella

www.Getup.org.au

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spoonster05
Team Manager



Monaco
11520 Posts
joined 18 Sep 05

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Posted - 07 Apr 2007 :  13:02:48  Show Profile Send spoonster05 a Private Message Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
So why would Ford knowingly put their drivers at risk by not testing the brake duct efficiency in the first place ?

Ford screamed until they got a copy of the Commodore front splitter and then when they get the chance they change it totally again

I'm concerned for safety of drivers so the brake ducts need to be increased and they should be done ASAP but I fail to see how Holden has gotten an advantage with this one, after all they didn't design the Ford aero update...

_Mamg


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bigem
A polar bear



Australia
14083 Posts
joined 22 Jun 04

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Posted - 07 Apr 2007 :  13:13:47  Show Profile Send bigem a Private Message Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
cs05, where did you get the Commodore front splitter from? Do you mean the same length undertay as the Commodore, that was all that was asked for. The Size of the intake ducts is a TEGA baby, not Ford. There is a massive visible difference in the shapes and inlet duct sizes between BF and VE. Its not a Ford or Holden issue, its TEGA who has got this bit very wrong and they are the only ones who can fix it!! If they do nothing and somebody gets hurt/killed even, TEGA will never be able to survive the compensation that they will be forced to pay!! Munners, quit while your ahead mate, your emnbarrassing yourself with your blind-sided ignorance!! Safety, thats whats at issue!!

Oh lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz.
My friends all drive Holdens, I must make amends.
Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends.
Stuff you lord, I bought my own, Mercedes Benz.
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karter
Team Manager


9696 Posts
joined 21 Sep 04

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Posted - 07 Apr 2007 :  13:44:12  Show Profile Send karter a Private Message Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by crazyspoon05

So why would Ford knowingly put their drivers at risk by not testing the brake duct efficiency in the first place ?

Ford screamed until they got a copy of the Commodore front splitter and then when they get the chance they change it totally again

I'm concerned for safety of drivers so the brake ducts need to be increased and they should be done ASAP but I fail to see how Holden has gotten an advantage with this one, after all they didn't design the Ford aero update...



For a start, testing is VERY restricted. For seconds, the changes to make the BA into a BF were FORCED on Ford. Is this somehow difficult to understand? They ARE NOT ALLOWED to run the BA airdam/splitter. They ARE NOT ALLOWED to run the BA. Yeah Holden can run the VZ if they want, (or do practically anything else they want, as usual) but Ford HAVE to run the BF front end which they HAD TO CHANGE from the BA.

So can you Holden guys get that? Ford HAD to change the airdam for this season. TEGA MADE THEM. Can you grasp that? Christ, it's not ****ing rocket science.
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