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 Should HRT adopts FPRs way of thinking?
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DeeMaC
Team Manager



Australia
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Posted - 01 Apr 2012 :  10:56:19  Show Profile  Visit DeeMaC's Homepage Send DeeMaC a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Poll Question:
FPR have two strong drivers up there duking it out for the championship.

HRT focus on one driver with some fans saying this is a good thing as driver two isn't up there fighting with driver one.


HRT used to be 'the ferrari of v8supercars' and now are merely a top 10 team with a podium being a strong result these days.

FPR are on the up ever since they 'retired' Richo to enduro duties.


So is two strong drivers like 888 and FPR the way to go these days or is focusing on one lead driver the best way to secure a championship? And should HRT switch over to the FPR way?

Choices:

YES focusing on one driver is archaic
NO they are the best team and will win again
FPR are just getting lucky
Who cares as long as one HRT car is wasted

(Anonymous Vote)

ClubsportR8
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Posted - 01 Apr 2012 :  11:16:00  Show Profile Send ClubsportR8 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by DeeMaC
HRT used to be 'the ferrari of v8supercars' and now are merely a top 10 team with a podium being a strong result these days.



Bathurst 2011 is a funny looking podium.

Anyway of course two strong drivers is better than one. Afterall that's what lead to their initial success. Tander as good as he is can't do it all on his own.


-

Through it all I'll support HRT until the day I die.

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DeeMaC
Team Manager



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Posted - 01 Apr 2012 :  11:26:05  Show Profile  Visit DeeMaC's Homepage Send DeeMaC a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
They were on the podium... so a good result. But that isn't the norm these days and other teams are catching and passing them.

HRT now are like FPR a couple of years ago with Richo in the team.

They need two strong cars up there.
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bigem
A polar bear



Australia
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Posted - 01 Apr 2012 :  11:31:03  Show Profile Send bigem a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
HRT: different leadership team, same results!!

Not too many people, HRT fans excepted, give a rats arse about how bad they are doing, most of us are rapt!!

Oh lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz.
My friends all drive Holdens, I must make amends.
Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends.
Stuff you lord, I bought my own, Mercedes Benz.
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ClubsportR8
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Posted - 01 Apr 2012 :  11:39:22  Show Profile Send ClubsportR8 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by bigem

HRT: different leadership team, same results!!

Not too many people, HRT fans excepted, give a rats arse about how bad they are doing, most of us are rapt!!



So you should mate. A strong HRT caused many Ford fans I know heart problems back in their domination era.

All stirring aside I know as a HRT fan for quite a number of years HRT will never get back to what they used to be. They'll always be there or there abouts, but like many forms of motorsport it's rare for a team that previously enjoyed an era of success to get back on top again.

Obviously they've proven their enduro campaign is still good, but if I had to be honest I can't see another championship again in the near future unless COTF is a benefit to them I suppose.

-

Through it all I'll support HRT until the day I die.


Edited by - ClubsportR8 on 01 Apr 2012 11:44:00
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Legendary Gerry
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Posted - 01 Apr 2012 :  11:42:29  Show Profile Send Legendary Gerry a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Let's not turn this thread upside down.

_Mford
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Joss
V8 Champion



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Posted - 02 Apr 2012 :  14:12:08  Show Profile Send Joss a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
I don't think the solution to HRT's problems is as simple as "adopting FPR's approach". One of the commentators during the round at Albert Park voiced the opinion that he thinks Garth Tander is the only driver who can really get the car to work. Now, I don't know how true that is, but looking at the relative performance of his team-mates over the past few years, I'm inclined to agree with it. James Courtney, Will Davison, and even Mark Skaife have all struggled in comparison to Tander (though Davison did beat him one year). It's been particularly apparent since 2010. I'm of the belief that once is an accident and twice is coincidence, but three times is a pattern.

There's not a hell of a lot of difference between the actual physical cars. We know that. But we also know that drivers need to take time to adapt their driving styles - Lee Holdsworth was saying that the Stone Brothers' Falcon handles very differently to the GRM Commodores. So I think that the problems at HRT can be traced back to the way they build their cars. I think Garth Tander is an insufferable git, but I can also acknowledge his talent (indeed, that's why I don't like him; if talent was directly influenced by one's personality, Tander would be at the back of the grid - but that is neither here nor there). HRT recognise it, too, and so they build cars that he can easily drive. It makes sense; when know you've got a fast horse, you bet on it. The problem is that this is counter-productive for anyone who happens to be Tander's team-mate. Where the build of the car plays to Tander's strengths, Tander's strengths are so unique that whoever is sitting in car #22 is disadvantaged.

Ultimately, I think this comes down to tunnel vision by HRT's management. They see that Tander is fast. They build a car that Tander can get the most out of. But somewhere along the way, they've missed the fact that different drivers get their speed in different ways, and they haven't factored that into the build of the car.

_Mford
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ClubsportR8
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Posted - 02 Apr 2012 :  14:43:04  Show Profile Send ClubsportR8 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Joss

I don't think the solution to HRT's problems is as simple as "adopting FPR's approach". One of the commentators during the round at Albert Park voiced the opinion that he thinks Garth Tander is the only driver who can really get the car to work. Now, I don't know how true that is, but looking at the relative performance of his team-mates over the past few years, I'm inclined to agree with it. James Courtney, Will Davison, and even Mark Skaife have all struggled in comparison to Tander (though Davison did beat him one year). It's been particularly apparent since 2010. I'm of the belief that once is an accident and twice is coincidence, but three times is a pattern.

There's not a hell of a lot of difference between the actual physical cars. We know that. But we also know that drivers need to take time to adapt their driving styles - Lee Holdsworth was saying that the Stone Brothers' Falcon handles very differently to the GRM Commodores. So I think that the problems at HRT can be traced back to the way they build their cars. I think Garth Tander is an insufferable git, but I can also acknowledge his talent (indeed, that's why I don't like him; if talent was directly influenced by one's personality, Tander would be at the back of the grid - but that is neither here nor there). HRT recognise it, too, and so they build cars that he can easily drive. It makes sense; when know you've got a fast horse, you bet on it. The problem is that this is counter-productive for anyone who happens to be Tander's team-mate. Where the build of the car plays to Tander's strengths, Tander's strengths are so unique that whoever is sitting in car #22 is disadvantaged.

Ultimately, I think this comes down to tunnel vision by HRT's management. They see that Tander is fast. They build a car that Tander can get the most out of. But somewhere along the way, they've missed the fact that different drivers get their speed in different ways, and they haven't factored that into the build of the car.



Good post and I happen to agree. HRT need to start factoring in that different drivers have different driving styles. Though I'm not exactly sure how Will was able to adapt so quick if the cars are truly "Garth centric" or so as Baird implied at the AGP.

The problem is #22 is so hit and miss it's not funny. Courtney yesterday showed while he's not bouncing off walls and other cars he can drive it ok and ironically Tander went the way.

It's frustrating to say the least even if others love to see it happen. HRT know how to build fast race cars. On their day they're as good if not better than 888 and FPR. The problem is there's no "I" in team, so they need to start to remember they have 2 cars instead of 1.

-

Through it all I'll support HRT until the day I die.


Edited by - ClubsportR8 on 02 Apr 2012 14:43:31
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Joss
V8 Champion



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Posted - 02 Apr 2012 :  15:13:21  Show Profile Send Joss a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
It's really a question of what kind of long-term strategy they want to adopt. Favouring one car and showing equal support for two cars have their own advantages and disadvantages.

If you favour one car, it's easier to win the drivers' championship. The last thing you need is two drivers who cannot mount a challenge for the championship because they are too busy taking points out of one another. Red Bull did this in Formula 1 back in 2009 - Jenson Button's team literally ran out of money halfway through the season (it got to the point where they were basically relying on one-race sponsor deals just to get to the next Grand Prix), and both Vettel and Webber stood a real chance of catching him. But the team never threw their support behind one driver, and Button somehow managed to limp over the line. Sorry to use a Formula 1 analogy here, but I can't really recall a specific instance of it happening in V8 Supercars. With such a competitive grid, and with every position scoring points, supporting one driver from the outset makes it easier to fight for the title. The downside is that if something should happen to your lead driver (ie, he retires on the first lap at Bathurst), you've got nothing because your second driver is really just there to make up the numbers.

On the other hand, supporting two drivers makes sense if you want the teams' championship. With Triple Eight being the class act of the field, being competitive in the teams' championship standings is probably a point of pride for HRT. But, like I said, there are plenty of comeptitive drivers and plenty of points on offer, so you can't rely on one man to do all the work. You need to split your focus and support both drivers. And if one driver is eliminated from the championship race, you've at least got a second driver to fall back on. The obvious downside is that splitting focus means splitting resources, and splitting resources means less overall support for one driver.

_Mford
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Wrighty05
Last of the Big Bangers



Tonga
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Posted - 02 Apr 2012 :  15:27:13  Show Profile  Click to see Wrighty05's MSN Messenger address Send Wrighty05 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
No.

They should adpot whatever Hallam tells them to do. They won't work miracles overnight.

RIP05

_Mholden

RIP LJ - loved and never forgotten.

"It was dry for the second go-around. Grice, nervous, worrying about his Bathurst jinx, ran 2:25.9. The amazing Brock, using every last centimetre of bitumen, yet keeping the car straight and balanced and at full noise, came back with a staggering 2:20.0 as if to say: "Match that". And people just shook their heads, bit their lips and wondered who would be second".

The Peter Brock trophy is now where it belongs.
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LP11
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Posted - 02 Apr 2012 :  15:52:06  Show Profile Send LP11 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Joss

It's really a question of what kind of long-term strategy they want to adopt. Favouring one car and showing equal support for two cars have their own advantages and disadvantages.

If you favour one car, it's easier to win the drivers' championship. The last thing you need is two drivers who cannot mount a challenge for the championship because they are too busy taking points out of one another. Red Bull did this in Formula 1 back in 2009 - Jenson Button's team literally ran out of money halfway through the season (it got to the point where they were basically relying on one-race sponsor deals just to get to the next Grand Prix), and both Vettel and Webber stood a real chance of catching him. But the team never threw their support behind one driver, and Button somehow managed to limp over the line. Sorry to use a Formula 1 analogy here, but I can't really recall a specific instance of it happening in V8 Supercars. With such a competitive grid, and with every position scoring points, supporting one driver from the outset makes it easier to fight for the title. The downside is that if something should happen to your lead driver (ie, he retires on the first lap at Bathurst), you've got nothing because your second driver is really just there to make up the numbers.

On the other hand, supporting two drivers makes sense if you want the teams' championship. With Triple Eight being the class act of the field, being competitive in the teams' championship standings is probably a point of pride for HRT. But, like I said, there are plenty of comeptitive drivers and plenty of points on offer, so you can't rely on one man to do all the work. You need to split your focus and support both drivers. And if one driver is eliminated from the championship race, you've at least got a second driver to fall back on. The obvious downside is that splitting focus means splitting resources, and splitting resources means less overall support for one driver.



I pretty much agree with this.

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emu
V8 Champion



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Posted - 02 Apr 2012 :  17:11:55  Show Profile Send emu a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by DeeMaC

FPR have two strong drivers up there duking it out for the championship.

HRT focus on one driver with some fans saying this is a good thing as driver two isn't up there fighting with driver one.


HRT used to be 'the ferrari of v8supercars' and now are merely a top 10 team with a podium being a strong result these days.

FPR are on the up ever since they 'retired' Richo to enduro duties.


So is two strong drivers like 888 and FPR the way to go these days or is focusing on one lead driver the best way to secure a championship? And should HRT switch over to the FPR way?


a top ten team
GT was in the hunt the last few years, will the year before, add a few bathurst wins & you cant say there just a top ten team.

they have 2 championship winning drivers, so why do HRT want FPR ways, maybe FPR should look at how HRT have done things.
they know how to win, they might not be as strong, but still have some decent runs on the board.
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HRTKLR
No.1 Ford Fan



Australia
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Posted - 02 Apr 2012 :  17:30:15  Show Profile Send HRTKLR a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by emu

quote:
Originally posted by DeeMaC

FPR have two strong drivers up there duking it out for the championship.

HRT focus on one driver with some fans saying this is a good thing as driver two isn't up there fighting with driver one.


HRT used to be 'the ferrari of v8supercars' and now are merely a top 10 team with a podium being a strong result these days.

FPR are on the up ever since they 'retired' Richo to enduro duties.


So is two strong drivers like 888 and FPR the way to go these days or is focusing on one lead driver the best way to secure a championship? And should HRT switch over to the FPR way?


a top ten team
GT was in the hunt the last few years, will the year before, add a few bathurst wins & you cant say there just a top ten team.

they have 2 championship winning drivers, so why do HRT want FPR ways, maybe FPR should look at how HRT have done things.
they know how to win, they might not be as strong, but still have some decent runs on the board.

So you're suggesting FPR should adopt traction control?
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ClubsportR8
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Posted - 02 Apr 2012 :  17:43:08  Show Profile Send ClubsportR8 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by HRTKLR

quote:
Originally posted by emu

quote:
Originally posted by DeeMaC

FPR have two strong drivers up there duking it out for the championship.

HRT focus on one driver with some fans saying this is a good thing as driver two isn't up there fighting with driver one.


HRT used to be 'the ferrari of v8supercars' and now are merely a top 10 team with a podium being a strong result these days.

FPR are on the up ever since they 'retired' Richo to enduro duties.


So is two strong drivers like 888 and FPR the way to go these days or is focusing on one lead driver the best way to secure a championship? And should HRT switch over to the FPR way?


a top ten team
GT was in the hunt the last few years, will the year before, add a few bathurst wins & you cant say there just a top ten team.

they have 2 championship winning drivers, so why do HRT want FPR ways, maybe FPR should look at how HRT have done things.
they know how to win, they might not be as strong, but still have some decent runs on the board.

So you're suggesting FPR should adopt traction control?



-

Through it all I'll support HRT until the day I die.


Edited by - ClubsportR8 on 02 Apr 2012 17:45:25
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HRTKLR
No.1 Ford Fan



Australia
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Posted - 02 Apr 2012 :  17:54:54  Show Profile Send HRTKLR a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
And before you Team Red fans get the red mist, just laugh and shrug it off
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ClubsportR8
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Posted - 02 Apr 2012 :  17:56:04  Show Profile Send ClubsportR8 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by HRTKLR

And before you Team Red fans get the red mist, just laugh and shrug it off



Oh I've shrugged it off. I mean I might aswell given how badly HRT are going atm.

-

Through it all I'll support HRT until the day I die.

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