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WarrenK
Transporter Driver



Australia
52 Posts
joined 20 Feb 13

 offline

Posted - 05 Dec 2019 :  13:29:00  Show Profile Send WarrenK a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by skaifeman

quote:
Originally posted by Kieron302

quote:
Originally posted by troy01505
Holdens demise will have little to no effect on the sport. If the name disappears they’ll simply rebrand with a bow tie and enter a suitable car, they’ll never leave the sport.



Seems like you have inside info at GM?

GM wanted Holden out of motorsport. A few employees in Holden reduced $$ spent on motorsport and convinced GM to continue, this is why Holden passed the ZB development costs to T8. I believe those Holden employees no longer work there.

If Holden goes, the Commodore is almost certainly dead and I seriously doubt they will replace it with another large car. Camaro has been shelved from 2022 and no concrete plans exist to resurrect it, what would they race?

There's no question, Holden failing sales has to be seen as a Threat to SC's.



The man who pushed Holden to stay on with Supercars is now the man who took over the top job:
https://autoaction.com.au/2019/12/03/holdens-racing-future

No denying they looked like wanting out though, but they're still in the hands of a motorsport supporter - for the time being.
My question is, what else has Holden got going for it? Motorsport is its only tie to the 'real' Holden of yesteryear - would it be good to lose that link?
(Much like when they announced closing the manufacturing plant, people stopped buying Astra's too - because it wasn't Australian... it's all perception. Motorsport may be upholding that 'historic' perception, even if only a little bit).

quote:
Originally posted by abhibeckert

quote:
Originally posted by Kieron302

Hmm, i'd suggest Ford fans have moved to Mustangs, wouldn't be surprised if ex Holden V8 buyers have moved to them neither.


The Mustang is nowhere near selling well enough for people to have “moved” to that car. It’s too expensive and too impractical with only two doors.



Impractical, maybe, but overpriced? It's competition is 1/3 of the cost more (at a quick guess), it's also selling well worldwide.

quote:
Originally posted by AlbertM

Don't think Kieron meant that Ford fans have literally moved to buying Mustangs. They just see it as the hero car of the brand.


Which is why Nissan were in the sport - not to sell the Altima, but promote their range with the Supercars target market mainly buying 4x4's.

Mustang does the same. People walk into the dealership to look at one and walk out with a Ranger or Focus.
The Ford marketing strategy has been seriously on point when they foresaw the death of the Falcon.

quote:
Originally posted by billybanana

Holden are finished. IMO they won't make the grid for th Gen 3 regs come 2022.


This hits home, and is very real.

quote:
Originally posted by WarrenK

quote:
Originally posted by troy01505
As I stated above if the Holden name dies which a name is all it has been for sometime now we will see bow tie badged cars



If the Holden name dies, it will mean that GM have withdrawn from Australia like they have done in Europe and a couple of other countries. So there will be no bow tie badged cars sold by GM in Australia.


Not sure if this is right. Most reports say that Holden will just cop a re-brand to the bow-tie.
There's nothing bad about the Holden range when compared to any other car maker - it's just the image.




The problem is the Australian market for GM is about around 50,000 right hand drives vehicles a year. Buy pulling out of Europe they also pulled out of the UK which they would have sold a lot more right hand drive vehicles than in Australia. GM's focus is on the left hand drive markets in Nth America and China. They even dropped the right drive version of the next model of what Australia calls the Colarado. Now with the latest executive exit from Holden (the fellow who was going to turn the sales around) things don't look to bright for Holden.
As this thread is about 2021, there will be Holdens on the grid for that year, but when 2022 arrives the only sure bet will be the Mustang will be there.

Never argue with an idiot, they will bring you down to their level and beat with experience every time.
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Kieron302
Team Manager


Australia
6354 Posts
joined 14 May 03

 offline

Posted - 05 Dec 2019 :  15:58:11  Show Profile Send Kieron302 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by skaifeman

The man who pushed Holden to stay on with Supercars is now the man who took over the top job:
https://autoaction.com.au/2019/12/03/holdens-racing-future



Kristian wasn't the man who I was referring to. It was Simon McNamara and a few others.

Kristian did boost the spend in SC's by providing support to the other Holden runners and wants to continue in SC's.

quote:

No denying they looked like wanting out though, but they're still in the hands of a motorsport supporter - for the time being.
My question is, what else has Holden got going for it? Motorsport is its only tie to the 'real' Holden of yesteryear - would it be good to lose that link?



Good question and with further news today that the Commodore twin in the US is being dropped and no factory Camaro for Holden, the question is will GM force Holden to drop the Commodore and if so, what will Kristian race?

GM need to get to the bottom of Holdens problems, but do they want too? do they shut shop like they have in other markets? do they re-brand as Chevrolet to tie in with the halo Corvette?



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REM
Team Manager



Australia
14436 Posts
joined 27 Sep 03

 offline

Posted - 11 Dec 2019 :  06:09:42  Show Profile Send REM a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
This raises questions....expansion?

https://www.speedcafe.com/2019/12/11/brown-set-to-graduate-to-supercars-in-2021-with-erebus/?fbclid=IwAR1OwchD5ZsaBvybT-wwQF4yDz1zKk3HvaKN2bWJydHDKeVuw4eSe2nBLwE

That's great, it starts with an earthquake
Birds and snakes, and aeroplanes
And Lenny Bruce is not afraid!
"Remember that in the end nobody wins, unless everybody wins!" Springsteen BTR.


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Wrighty05
Last of the Big Bangers



Tonga
7381 Posts
joined 25 Aug 03

 offline



Posted - 11 Dec 2019 :  06:55:19  Show Profile  Click to see Wrighty05's MSN Messenger address Send Wrighty05 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Looks like it, all are contracted. They should be able to access a license easily enough

RIP05

_Mholden

RIP LJ - loved and never forgotten.

"It was dry for the second go-around. Grice, nervous, worrying about his Bathurst jinx, ran 2:25.9. The amazing Brock, using every last centimetre of bitumen, yet keeping the car straight and balanced and at full noise, came back with a staggering 2:20.0 as if to say: "Match that". And people just shook their heads, bit their lips and wondered who would be second".

The Peter Brock trophy is now where it belongs.
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ignition
Terminator


2472 Posts
joined 30 Jan 08

 offline

Posted - 11 Dec 2019 :  08:33:59  Show Profile Send ignition a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
saw a comment on Facebook suggesting a third car with Paul Morris support, with a Kostecki entry to partner it in the second garage.

seems plausible
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troy01505
Team Manager



Australia
3092 Posts
joined 25 Feb 08

 offline

Posted - 11 Dec 2019 :  11:40:10  Show Profile Send troy01505 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by REM

This raises questions....expansion?

https://www.speedcafe.com/2019/12/11/brown-set-to-graduate-to-supercars-in-2021-with-erebus/?fbclid=IwAR1OwchD5ZsaBvybT-wwQF4yDz1zKk3HvaKN2bWJydHDKeVuw4eSe2nBLwE



Maybe, apparently Dave’s contract is to remain at the team but not necessarily as a full time driver. Maybe one of bettys boys on here can confirm?
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fordie
Formula Ford Driver



254 Posts
joined 13 Jul 08

 offline

Posted - 11 Dec 2019 :  15:28:15  Show Profile Send fordie a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
My understanding of ADP is it is a 'multi year contract' with Erebus, but with 12 month continuation option each year of the multi year contract in the hands of ADP.
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FirstOnRaceDay
Transporter Driver



65 Posts
joined 12 Aug 19

 offline

Posted - 11 Dec 2019 :  15:34:18  Show Profile Send FirstOnRaceDay a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by fordie

My understanding of ADP is it is a 'multi year contract' with Erebus, but with 12 month continuation option each year of the multi year contract in the hands of ADP.



My thoughts (hope) is that ADP will drive for DJRTP, as soon as 2021. Betty knows she probably can’t compete and keep him. By then SM will head over to the states and DJRTP have a ready made replacement.

Edited by - FirstOnRaceDay on 11 Dec 2019 15:35:47
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troy01505
Team Manager



Australia
3092 Posts
joined 25 Feb 08

 offline

Posted - 11 Dec 2019 :  16:37:49  Show Profile Send troy01505 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by FirstOnRaceDay

quote:
Originally posted by fordie

My understanding of ADP is it is a 'multi year contract' with Erebus, but with 12 month continuation option each year of the multi year contract in the hands of ADP.



My thoughts (hope) is that ADP will drive for DJRTP, as soon as 2021. Betty knows she probably can’t compete and keep him. By then SM will head over to the states and DJRTP have a ready made replacement.



Strange, Jdub replacement has been thrown around a fair bit.
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skaifeman
Team Manager



Australia
7277 Posts
joined 01 Aug 09

 online

Posted - 11 Dec 2019 :  17:02:57  Show Profile Send skaifeman a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
I seem to think it was a multi-year Erebus deal with an option to leave should either 888 or Penske call.


"Ford’s Bathurst winning bonus didn’t even cover the cost of the after-party" - Allan Moffat, 1977
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FirstOnRaceDay
Transporter Driver



65 Posts
joined 12 Aug 19

 offline

Posted - 12 Dec 2019 :  09:39:04  Show Profile Send FirstOnRaceDay a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by troy01505

quote:
Originally posted by FirstOnRaceDay

quote:
Originally posted by fordie

My understanding of ADP is it is a 'multi year contract' with Erebus, but with 12 month continuation option each year of the multi year contract in the hands of ADP.



My thoughts (hope) is that ADP will drive for DJRTP, as soon as 2021. Betty knows she probably can’t compete and keep him. By then SM will head over to the states and DJRTP have a ready made replacement.



Strange, Jdub replacement has been thrown around a fair bit.



If ADP has an option for DJRTP or The Whinging Pom, surely he would have to pick going to a proven race and championship winning car. Who knows what 888 will have in 2022, then again it probably won’t matter cause RD will just get his mates at Supercars to correct the parity again.

Hope this change in 2022 gets us something with so much less politics and drama than we’ve been seeing over the last 12 months.

Edited by - FirstOnRaceDay on 12 Dec 2019 09:40:16
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troy01505
Team Manager



Australia
3092 Posts
joined 25 Feb 08

 offline

Posted - 12 Dec 2019 :  10:19:35  Show Profile Send troy01505 a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by FirstOnRaceDay

quote:
Originally posted by troy01505

quote:
Originally posted by FirstOnRaceDay

quote:
Originally posted by fordie

My understanding of ADP is it is a 'multi year contract' with Erebus, but with 12 month continuation option each year of the multi year contract in the hands of ADP.



My thoughts (hope) is that ADP will drive for DJRTP, as soon as 2021. Betty knows she probably can’t compete and keep him. By then SM will head over to the states and DJRTP have a ready made replacement.



Strange, Jdub replacement has been thrown around a fair bit.



If ADP has an option for DJRTP or The Whinging Pom, surely he would have to pick going to a proven race and championship winning car. Who knows what 888 will have in 2022, then again it probably won’t matter cause RD will just get his mates at Supercars to correct the parity again.

Hope this change in 2022 gets us something with so much less politics and drama than we’ve been seeing over the last 12 months.



Triple 8 will be around and still be a force as long as the series is here, let’s not forget they were dominating in Fords and then switched where the domination continued. A manufacturers dream!

The changes for 2022 should eliminate any car coming in which such an advantage, you have Supercars to blame for rules to allow it happen and the rule to close the gap between the brands.
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FirstOnRaceDay
Transporter Driver



65 Posts
joined 12 Aug 19

 offline

Posted - 12 Dec 2019 :  11:34:44  Show Profile Send FirstOnRaceDay a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by troy01505

quote:
Originally posted by FirstOnRaceDay

quote:
Originally posted by troy01505

quote:
Originally posted by FirstOnRaceDay

quote:
Originally posted by fordie

My understanding of ADP is it is a 'multi year contract' with Erebus, but with 12 month continuation option each year of the multi year contract in the hands of ADP.



My thoughts (hope) is that ADP will drive for DJRTP, as soon as 2021. Betty knows she probably can’t compete and keep him. By then SM will head over to the states and DJRTP have a ready made replacement.



Strange, Jdub replacement has been thrown around a fair bit.



If ADP has an option for DJRTP or The Whinging Pom, surely he would have to pick going to a proven race and championship winning car. Who knows what 888 will have in 2022, then again it probably won’t matter cause RD will just get his mates at Supercars to correct the parity again.

Hope this change in 2022 gets us something with so much less politics and drama than we’ve been seeing over the last 12 months.



Triple 8 will be around and still be a force as long as the series is here, let’s not forget they were dominating in Fords and then switched where the domination continued. A manufacturers dream!

The changes for 2022 should eliminate any car coming in which such an advantage, you have Supercars to blame for rules to allow it happen and the rule to close the gap between the brands.



What a load of crap! We all know it was SM who beat everyone, not the Mustang itself. Who came second in the championship after the car got nobbled? Wasn’t Coulthard, want Mostert.
No it was888 second and third after the Mustang got done over again and again.

I cannot belive the amount of carrying on by the non informed bogans who think it was a car disparity and not the driver.

But good old Roland complained and carried on and everyone believed him. He couldn’t reengineer his car so he got Supercars to do it for him.

I am revelling in the misery of the bogan Holden people, and am happy to gloat for as long as I can.

Holden is dead we’ve been saying it all year. Their CEO “elected to retire “ last week, - yeah right.

So keep enjoying watching a Lion badge for a couple of years at the tail end of Pony kicking its a.....
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oldtimer
Team Manager



4501 Posts
joined 19 Jun 11

 offline

Posted - 12 Dec 2019 :  11:40:16  Show Profile Send oldtimer a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
Too much historic bovine excrement!
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Fast by Ferracci
Team Manager



10471 Posts
joined 23 Sep 04

 offline

Posted - 12 Dec 2019 :  11:46:36  Show Profile Send Fast by Ferracci a Private Message  Reply with Quote Copy this URL to Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by troy01505

quote:
Originally posted by FirstOnRaceDay

quote:
Originally posted by troy01505

quote:
Originally posted by FirstOnRaceDay

quote:
Originally posted by fordie

My understanding of ADP is it is a 'multi year contract' with Erebus, but with 12 month continuation option each year of the multi year contract in the hands of ADP.



My thoughts (hope) is that ADP will drive for DJRTP, as soon as 2021. Betty knows she probably can’t compete and keep him. By then SM will head over to the states and DJRTP have a ready made replacement.



Strange, Jdub replacement has been thrown around a fair bit.



If ADP has an option for DJRTP or The Whinging Pom, surely he would have to pick going to a proven race and championship winning car. Who knows what 888 will have in 2022, then again it probably won’t matter cause RD will just get his mates at Supercars to correct the parity again.

Hope this change in 2022 gets us something with so much less politics and drama than we’ve been seeing over the last 12 months.



Triple 8 will be around and still be a force as long as the series is here, let’s not forget they were dominating in Fords and then switched where the domination continued. A manufacturers dream!

The changes for 2022 should eliminate any car coming in which such an advantage, you have Supercars to blame for rules to allow it happen and the rule to close the gap between the brands.



Triple 8 will surely only be around as long as it is profitable to be around in the series

How do you know the 2022 rules will change anything?
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